Sunday, December 13, 2015

Disruption on the Greenway

Apologies that this post is a little late but photo collage above was taken 2 weeks ago when Stratford Cllr Terry Paul and myself met up with local Newham cyclists to look at the reasons for the ongoing "temporary" closure of the Greenway and possible alternative diversions.

The Greenway is one of the hidden gems of Newham. It is a cycling and walking footpath on top of a Victorian sewer embankment, which goes across much of the borough to Tower Hamlets and then onto Victoria Park and the canal network. For many years I used to cycle into work along it to Bow.

The problem is that it has been cut off in two important places. Since February 2014 between Manor Road and Stratford High Street for Thames Water to renew a bridge and also between Stratford High Street and Marshgate Lane since (at least) 2012 for the Olympics and construction of Crossrail.

Local cyclists are "frustrated" by the length of time taken to to renew the bridge and also that the diverted route has signage problems and feel it is mostly unnecessary. I think that "angry" rather than frustrated describes the feeling about the seemingly never ending closure of the route to Marshgate Lane.

We cycled around the diverted route and then visited the construction site and the junction Canning Road with Abbey Lane E15. There was a genuine and constructive debate about road safety at that junction if the cycle diversion route was changed to use it. I think that it was accepted that it was dangerous but nothing is risk free and that surely there must be something that could be done to make it safer?

Terry and I will be asking Newham Council highways staff for advice on this and the other issues brought up.

Tomorrow (Monday 14 December) at 8am Newham Cyclists are due to meet with Cllr Terry Paul and I at the "Rhubarb" Sculpture in Stratford High Street for another moving site visit (I may have to drop out because I currently have the dreaded lergy)

hat tip Olawale Ajibola for photos

Saturday, December 12, 2015

How our pensions are used to fund attacks on workers.

"Fidelity and the "premier supporter group of the Conservative Party"

Check out another post by Tom P on a great British rip off. 

"Ahh.... Fidelity, the lure of right-wing British politics is just too strong for you isn't it?

I've blogged previously about the latest Fidelity link to the Tories - their involvement with the Leaders Group. According to the Conservative Party's own website this is the "premier supporter group" for the Tories, with an annual membership of £50,000.

As if you were in any doubt about which party Fidelity were rooting for in the General Election, the Q1 2015 disclosure of which "major donors" attended Leaders Group meals in the first quarter shows that both Barry Bateman and Simon Haslam represented Fidelity (FIL Holdings in the list). It isn't clear if the were both at one meeting, or if more than one was attended. As well as being a board member of FIL, Simon Haslam is of course also chair of Colt, where Fidelity is the major investor.

Of course the Conservative Party has embarked on a major assault on trade unions since the election, something that was trailed in their manifesto. If you are a trade unionist who is a pension fund trustee or otherwise has some involvement in this area you might want to choose asset managers who don't fund attacks on you".

Friday, December 11, 2015

West Ham Labour Party Rejects Trade Union Bill

West Ham Labour Party Executive Committee unanimously supported this motion on Wednesday. The Trade Union Bill returns to the House of Lords probably early next year (11 January 2016) and I hope will be sent back to the House of Commons for being an authoritarian, divisive and oppressive measure that will make industrial relations worse not better.

Thursday, December 10, 2015

LOBOs. Cllr Gray's Response to Newham Council’s Annual Treasury Management Report 2014/15

I spoke after Cllr Whitworth raised concerns on this item 14 at Monday evening (7.12.15) at Full
Council.

"Thank you Chair. John Gray, West Ham ward, speaking as a Councillor, expressing concerns on behalf of my constituents about Newham Council’s exposure to LOBO loans, in this report referred to my colleague, Cllr Whitworth. It now appears to be accepted internally that these concerns are to some extent at least justified.

I refer to appendix 4 of the report pages 75-79 which I interpret as a clear acceptance that due to what is called “unforeseen” events after we took out these loans, it now means that they are now quote “expensive” - so my chief issue now, is whether or not, we can do anything about our ongoing exposure to these loans. I think we have to fully admit that we are in a hole and rule number one when you are in a hole, is to stop digging.

This is after all public money, very large amounts of public money, so it is of importance that in the best of times that every penny is spent wisely and now in the worst of times, that this is of even greater importance.

We must learn the lessons from the past. Especially when the Council is considering taking advantage of current low interest rates to invest in capital projects, that are aimed at getting a commercial return in order to try and offset some of the ‎cuts in income.  We have suffered due to savage cuts in Government grants and financial support in Newham. Further loans will not only increase our risk but the cost of existing loans will have a negative impact on our ability to service new ones.

It is clear that even though we are a relatively small outer London borough, we have the single largest exposure to LOBOs in the country. We are paying more for our loans than any other local authority in the country. The correct interest rate comparison is not with the toxic long term fixed rate PWB loans still on our books but with what we would be paying otherwise. We will have this exposure possibly for the next 65 years. ‎

I posted an article yesterday on my website written by a leading solicitor on LOBOs and then was sent the following private message. “John... When I was Treasury Manager at **** we avoided any fancy products. We reasoned that the banks were offering products for their benefit rather than ours, and if we couldn't completely understand and explain it then we didn't want it”.

Before we apply for any new loans,  we must apply in my view, this “fancy products” test.

I was pleased that the audit board has decided to investigate whether or not there is a legal case to be made against ‎the Banks and our advisers. Remember at the same time LOBO salesmen were selling these loans, the Bank traders were conspiring and manipulating interest rates. Remember also that the Banks earned enormous profits from day one of a LOBO sale and that some banks paid some brokers and advisers huge commissions or kickbacks without telling or fully disclosing to clients.

Finally, council, we must clean up the British financial services industry. When will these financial scandals end? It allowed pensions fraud by Robert Maxwell, insurance mis-selling, payment protection insurance fraud and in 2007 and 2008 they almost completely destroyed our economy. We currently face a new the scandal developing of grotesque and hidden fees and charges on our investments.

I fear that I cannot support this report in its current format but shall await the response from Executive before making my decision".

I will post the response from the Executive Member and Mayor later. 

Hat tip photo Joel Benjamin.

LOBOs. Cllr Whitworth's Response to Newham Council’s Annual Treasury Management Report 2014/15

This is the concerns expressed by Cllr John Whitworth during the discussion on item 14 at Monday evening (7.12.15) at Full Council. 

"The issue of the servicing and repayment of the Council’s debt is obviously of major importance at a time when we are obliged to make savings in most areas because of the progressive reduction in government funding.

In the Annual Treasury Management Report 2014/15 in Appendix 4 p.76 we have the statement in bold type that: “It is estimated that the Council’s prudent borrowing decisions generated £64m of savings to our debt portfolio since 2002”.

The state of the borrowing is shown on p.75, which indicates that the Council has a debt portfolio of Public Works Loan Board (PWLB) loans totalling £63.5 million and Lender Option Borrow Option (LOBO) loans totalling £563.5 million. This suggests that the Council’s savings are due for the most part to the taking out of very large LOBO loans.

However, the benefit of LOBO loans to local authority borrowers was called into question by the Channel 4 Dispatches programme on 6th July - to the point that the House of Commons Communities and Local Government Select Committee called in the Dispatches reporter and two experts on derivatives and hedging to give evidence at its meeting of 20th July. All three witnesses were of the view that under most circumstances borrowers did not benefit from taking out LOBO loans.

Financial journalist, Nick Dunbar has done a study of our LOBO loans using the Bloomberg terminal and concluded that: “By choosing to borrow from Barclays, RBS and other banks rather than from the government, Newham actually lost £10 million since 2002, using prevailing rates on PWLB debt” (http://nickdunbar.net/ Newham’s broken crystal ball). In other words, he says we have paid £10 million more since 2002 by taking out our LOBO loans than we would have if we had borrowed the same amount in PWLB loans.

I therefore suggest that, given the doubt cast upon the Council’s estimation, it should be re-examined to verify whether money is actually being saved by owing this large amount inLOBO loans and - if it is found that money is really being lost - then measures should be taken to try to remedy the situation".

I will post my contribution later. 

Wednesday, December 09, 2015

Sunday Night Live: Syria and Airstrikes

A week on from the Commons vote, which extended Britain’s bombing campaign against ISIS into Syria, this Sunday Night Live special explores where now for the multinational coalition against Daesh.

With on-going controversy surrounding Cameron’s widely challenged claim of 70,000 moderate Syrian opposition fighters ready to defeat Daesh, military and security experts are cautioning Britain to be realistic about the extent to which UK action can shape the outcome of the conflict. They are also warning the international community to be ready for the long haul as events on the ground continue to outstrip the pace of diplomatic efforts.

This Sunday Night Live session, with leading experts and commentators, will explore:
  • The kaleidoscope of interests at stake in the Syrian conflict, and how these are hampering international diplomatic peace efforts; 
  • What needs to happen to bring regional and global actors round the table to break the current paralysis over the future of Assad’s regime; 
  • The military challenges to the current ‘degrade’ objectives of the counter ISIS-strategy and how to protect Syrian civilians – are ‘no-fly zones’ completely out of the question;
  • How coherent is the international strategy to defeat ISIS and end the civil war in Syria; 
  • The domestic implications of the terrorist threat posed by ISIS and where now with the UK’s counter-terrorism strategy.  

Money will also be collected on the evening for the UNHCR Syria Crisis Appeal. 

When
Where
Stratford Picturehouse bar - Salway Road. Stratford . London E15 1BX GB - View Map

Register here

Tuesday, December 08, 2015

Newham Council Motion on Trade Union Bill

This motion was passed unanimously at the Newham Full Council meeting last night. The Tory anti-trade union bill has passed through the House of Commons with some significant changes. It goes to the House of Lords in January. We need to keep the pressure up to defeat or change this authoritarian and anti-democratic bill.  I will post our speeches later. 

Motion 2 – Trade Union Bill

Proposer: Councillor John Whitworth
Seconder: Councillor John Gray

This Council Notes:

·  The positive contribution that trade unions and trade union members make in our workplaces. This Council values the constructive relationship that we have with our trade unions and we recognise their commitment, and the commitment of all our staff, to the delivery of good quality public services.

·  With concern the Trade Union Bill which is currently being proposed by the Government and which would affect this Council’s relationship with our trade unions and our workforce as a whole. This Council rejects this Bill’s attack on local democracy and the attack on our right to manage our own affairs.

This Council believes:

·  That facility time, negotiated and agreed by us and our trade unions to suit our own specific needs, has a valuable role to play in the creation of good quality and responsive local services. Facility time should not be determined or controlled by Government in London.

·  That the arrangements we currently have in place for deducting trade union membership subscriptions through our payroll are beneficial. We see this as an important part of our positive industrial relations and a cheap and easy to administer system that supports our staff. This system is an administrative matter for the Council and should not be interfered with by the UK Government. 

This Council resolves

·  To support the campaign against the unnecessary, anti-democratic and bureaucratic Trade Union Bill.
·  To seek to continue its own locally agreed industrial relations strategy and will take every measure possible to maintain its autonomy with regard to facility time and the continuing use of check-off. 

Monday, December 07, 2015

UNISON Pyrenean Challenge 2016 - "there for you"



To All Branches

Dear Colleague

UNISON There for You:  Charity Challenge Events

I’m delighted to report that this year, £23,000 was collected for Unison’s very own charity by those who took part in the ‘Four Nations Charity Challenge’.  So huge thanks to everyone who helped our brave walkers reach their fundraising target 

Plans are already in place for 2016’s challenge which will see us return to France for a fabulous walk in the Pyrenees - we’re aiming to raise even more money! 

This is where we need your help
We need a minimum of 20 participants to ensure the event goes ahead so we’re looking for you to help with:  

1.    Raising awareness by circulating information amongst your members and anything else that might inspire them to take part
2.    Demonstrating  your support for anyone ready to take on the challenge by perhaps:

Ø  making a donation to help them achieve their fundraising target
Ø  helping wherever possible with local fundraising activities that they may want to organise

What we’re sending you
Included in this email is the following:

3.    Electronic application form
4.    Suggested message for use in branch newsletters, websites, member email – in Word/PDF format

I guarantee that money raised really does ‘make a difference’ to so many members lives!

Thank you in advanceAny queries please email thereforyou@unison.co.uk or call 020 7121 5620

Julie Grant
Head of UNISON There for You

(I have recently become a UNISON NEC trustee member of our Charity "there for you".  In this short time I am so impressed with the work that "there for you" does for our members who have found themselves in financial difficulty. While I cannot take part in this sponsored event due to a clash, I am thinking of self organising and going on the walk earlier in September while still raising money. Watch this space).

Sunday, December 06, 2015

LOBOs – Long term pain for short term gain?

I have posted on LOBOs before. I think that this article by Janine Alexander from Collyer Bristow LLP pretty much tells it as it is...

"Many local authorities and housing associations have taken out “LOBO” (Lender Option Borrower Option) loans over the past 15 years. They were particularly popular before 2008 in the “boom” time but are for periods of up to 60 or 70 years and so they have potentially long term ramifications. Following an examination of these products and their implications by Channel 4’s Dispatches, the Local Government and Communities Select Committee heard evidence about them from experts and others with concerns about how they have been sold and used.

LOBOs are indeed responsible in some cases for councils spending much more on individual loan repayments than would be expected over a period when interest rates have persistently remained at unprecedented low levels. However, some argue that in current market conditions they are benign and can be useful in reducing funding costs so that many local authority LOBO borrowers have paid less for their borrowing than they would have at the Public Works Loan Board rate for the period from drawdown to date. Others consider that LOBOs have no place at all on any local authority or housing association balance sheet because of the complex risks involved.

There are undoubtedly many potential problems and pitfalls with LOBOs and experts point to local authorities who have ended up paying well over the market rate for their borrowing through LOBOs over the past 10 years.

What is a LOBO?

The acronym "LOBO" stands for Lender Option Borrower Option. This is a type of loan, supposedly giving both parties "options" as the title of the product suggests, but in reality the "options" are in favour of the lender, because it is only the lender who has the benefit of “options” with an economic value.

In its simplest form, a LOBO loan involves the bank lending the local authority a sum of say, £10 million at a rate of 3.75% for 60 years. However, unlike a straightforward fixed rate loan, on specified dates during the life of the loan the bank has the benefit of an option enabling it to impose an interest rate increase. When the bank gives such a notice, the borrower is then given its “option”– it can either accept the new rate offered by the bank and carry on paying, or it can repay the loan in full without any penalty. So the effect is that if market interest rates for the remaining term of the lending fall below the deal agreed between the bank and the borrower, the borrower still has to pay the agreed higher rate, but if market rates increase the bank can take the benefit of the increase by serving a notice requiring the borrower to pay a higher rate. Therefore a LOBO is on the face of it a “win/win” position for the bank.

The bank will usually only serve a notice to increase the LOBO rate if rates in general for new loans for the remaining term of the LOBO have increased above the original rate on an “option date” so that the borrower is unlikely to obtain the same lending cheaper elsewhere. Otherwise the borrower would simply refinance elsewhere at a cheaper rate if the bank sought to increase the rate.

The bank’s “option dates” to increase the interest rate are typically the borrower’s only opportunities to make early repayment without penalty, and it can usually only do so if the bank has given notice it intends to increase the rate. If the bank never serves a notice to increase the rate, then typically the borrower is “locked in” and obliged to keep paying the rate originally agreed for the whole term of the loan. Therefore, once the initial period leading up to the Bank’s first option date expires, the borrower has no protection if interest rates rise and no opportunity to benefit if rates fall.

In order to repay the loan and refinance (in the absence of a notice from the bank to increase the rate), the borrower must pay a very hefty breakage cost equivalent to the market value of the remaining portion of the LOBO loan which, given the length of the arrangement and the valuable options which put the lender in a “win/win” situation, can be very substantial in a low interest rate environment. This breakage cost could exceed the amount of the outstanding loan itself.

Therefore, if market rates for equivalent lending remain low (and lower than the rate to be paid under the LOBO) the borrower is effectively locked in for the full term – it has no option to exit the arrangement and seek cheaper borrowing elsewhere – it must live with the rate agreed at the time the LOBO was entered into. So from the borrower’s perspective, these loans are a very long term commitment to pay the rate agreed at the outset for a term, or higher. So, on the face of it, the borrower is in a “lose/lose” position.

The Rationale

The obvious question then is why would a local authority or housing association enter into such a one sided arrangement?

The borrower is in fact selling options to the bank (the options to impose rate increases or ask for repayment) and these options have a value. This value is traded by the borrower for a discounted lower interest rate on the loan. The more options that are included (i.e the more dates on which the bank can increase the rate or demand repayment) the more valuable the package of options is overall to the bank and the lower the loan rate should be.

So in theory the loans can allow the borrower to access funds at well below market rate, and well below the Public Works Loan Board rate (for Local Authorities) for at least the period between drawdown of the loan and the first “call date” on which the bank can exercise an option to increase the rate. After that, what happens depends on the interest rate market at that time – the borrower may continue to pay the LOBO rate agreed at the outset, or be forced to pay a higher rate imposed by the bank with the alternative of repaying the loan and refinancing elsewhere (which will also be at a higher rate if market rates prevailing at that time are higher at that point).

The Pitfalls

However, in many cases due to the pricing and structure of the LOBOs entered into around 2005-2008 the borrower is in fact worse off now in cash flow terms than it would be if it had entered into a fixed rate loan for a term equivalent to that first period up to the call date, or had stayed on the floating rate. In either case, even if the early cash flow benefit has worked well the borrower also has a large contingent liability to account for. If the borrower’s finances were to become stressed for any reason to the point where it was unable to make payments on the LOBO, or went into insolvency, then the breakage cost usually has to be paid and so must be accounted for when considering the assets and liabilities of the borrower. This can affect access to other sources of finance as other lenders will take that into account in deciding whether to lend and the scale of the contingent liabilities could potentially put borrowers in breach of covenants in other banking facilities.

Variety of Structures and outcomes

The impact of LOBOs depends on the exact structure and pricing in any individual case. In some cases it appears LOBOs have terms that mean a borrower has paid less since they were drawn down than it would have if it had taken out the other loan products available on the market (or from the Public Works Loan Board) at the relevant time. In other cases LOBOs are currently requiring much higher payments than would have been required under alternative structures.

From the legal perspective, a review of a selection of LOBO loan agreements and associated paperwork revealed following Freedom of Information Act requests to Local Authorities (the only LOBO agreements available publicly) reveals a very complex picture with a huge variety of loan terms, rates and structures entered into by local authorities between 2005 and 2009. Some have a rate which (subject to the bank’s options to increase/demand repayment) remains constant for the term at between 3.5 and 4.5%. Others have “stepped rates” with a lower rate (typically 3% to 4%) for an initial period of about 2-5 years and then a higher rate of 4.5% to 5% for the remaining term to 2060.

Some use a much more complex formula to calculate the rates. For example one London Borough of Brent loan for £10,000,000 taken out with RBS on 11 April 2009 has a rate of 0.25% above LIBOR for 1 year, 2% for the next 2 years and then “8.7% minus the GBP-ISDA-Swap rate” meaning “the swap rate for Sterling swap transactions with a maturity of 10 years, expressed as a percentage which appears on Reuters Screen ISDAFIX4 Page as at 11.00am in London time on the first date of each Interest Period” to 2015, when the bank’s annual option to impose a new rate takes effect, and then this formula continues for the remainder of the term if no notice is served notifying a new rate. This arrangement, known as a “reverse floater” is particularly unfortunate for cash flow in recent years because it means that the lower market rates go, the more interest the local authority must pay RBS. It appears payments have been at c.6.% or more for the last 3 years. However, there is no obvious reason why a Council’s cash flow would be able to absorb this sort of fluctuation, particularly when interest rates in general are low.

There are some loans with option dates every 5 years, some every 3 years, some annually and some even more frequently than that. (Generally the more options, the more value generated by the borrower selling options to the bank, and so the bigger the discount on the interest rate should be).

The assistance of experts in structuring and valuing derivatives would be required in order to establish whether in each case the borrower got a good deal or a bad deal on the pricing of the LOBO. The more profit taken by the bank and intermediaries at the outset, the less likely it is that the LOBO will work out in the borrower’s favour because more of the borrowers “reward” for selling the bank the options (i.e. the value of the options which should be converted to a discount on the interest rate) has been diverted elsewhere and so whole structure is tilted further in the bank’s favour. This will also result in larger breakage costs and therefore contingent liabilities to be accounted for when assessing the borrower’s worth, and more potential impact on other sources of funding.

It is important in each case to consider the borrower’s alternatives and what its loss has been compared to the alternative the borrower would (and could) have taken instead.

CIPFA Guidelines

The Chartered Institute of Public Finance and Accountancy in its Treasury Risk Management Toolkit warns that LOBOs are inherently risky as a result of their “embedded optionality” and suggests caution and risk management policies such as spreading LOBOs so that they do not have option dates all occurring at the same time, not entering into LOBOs with very frequent “option dates” and accounting for LOBOs when considering the maximum amount of debt repayable in any one year as if they were all called in that year.

Crucially, CIPFA also reminds local authority finance departments of the golden rule – “Know your Product” and advises them that they should “gain a good understanding of the product in discussion with advisors brokers or banks” and warns them “If you are not sure, do not do it”.

This appears to be the crux of the issue. Did local authorities and housing associations understand sufficiently the products they were entering into and the risks of doing so? Were they suitable for their objectives? And was the pricing fair and transparent to them? And if not do borrowers have a right to recover damages from any of the parties involved?

Potential Claims

As well as the Banks selling the loans, many authorities engaged treasury management advisors or brokers (or both) who involved in the loan arrangements and were paid either fees by the authorities or commissions by the Bank.

LOBOs are assets of very substantial value because of their typically high value and long term nature. A straightforward interest only loan for £10 million for 60 years at a rate of 4% per annum is an instrument with a revenue stream of £24 million. LOBOs are essentially fixed rate loans with values of that order that have been tweaked, typically so as to reduce interest costs (in cash flow terms) to the borrower in the early stages of the loan by stacking the deck in favour of the bank at the back end of the loan. This makes the pricing and risk analysis more complex for the parties involved – the more complex the structure the more reliant the borrower becomes on specialist advisors and brokers to obtain a suitable product at a fair price.

Taking all this into account, have the local authorities saved money compared to the other options they had available to them at the time they entered into their LOBOs? Or have they entered into an arrangement that was to their disadvantage if rates fell. Was that a risk they consented to or were they misled in any way during the sales process? Were the products inherently unsuitable or is any damage caused merely a result of unforeseeable extremes?

What about the relationships between the advisors and the brokers? Some of the advisors being paid by the authorities to provide independent specialist advice on these loans were subsidiaries or sister companies of the brokers who arranged the execution of the deals with the Banks and were paid commission for doing so. Did the taxpayer get the best deal in those circumstances?

Did the advisors who were paid by the borrowers to provide advice do so with reasonable skill and care? Did they comply with their contractual obligations?

Some of the loans use LIBOR and ISDAfix as benchmarks, which are now known to have been manipulated by the Banks involved in setting the rates. Has this caused the borrower a loss?

There are a number of potential causes of action for borrowers including:
misrepresentation (negligent and possibly fraudulent depending on the facts e.g. regarding LIBOR) by any of the parties involved in inducing the borrower to enter into the loan;
breach of contractual obligations to advise regarding suitable products, or to provide “best execution” or to manage conflicts of interest;
negligence/negligent misstatement regarding the suitability or risks of the products;
conspiracy (e.g. re benchmark manipulation)

The potential claims in each case will depend on the structure and terms of the loan, the wording of any relevant contractual agreements with brokers and advisors, what disclaimers/limitations on liability of the various parties have been agreed and what impact the particular LOBO has had on the borrower’s financial position to date.

The issues surrounding LOBOs are complex and each loan and its financial effects, and the circumstances surrounding the transaction, needs to be examined individually to assess whether the borrower has a claim against the bank or any of its advisors or brokers".

Saturday, December 05, 2015

Sunday Night Live "21st Century NHS - a state of perpetual upheaval and crisis. Where now for the health service?"

Pictures from last weekends "Sunday Night Live" at Stratford Picture House, E15.  The debate was about the crisis in the NHS.

West Hammer Neil Wilson chaired. There was two guest speakers, Nigel Keohane, from the Social Market Foundation and Jos Bell, Socialist Health Alliance. Each speaker had 12 minutes to speak then Q&A. 

Jos Bell spoke first about the present crisis in the NHS and how we used to have the best NHS in the world (pre 2010) and the 3rd most efficient. Now we have Accident and Emergency departments "stuffed to the gunnels", hospital closures, ambulance services forced to recruit from Australia and New Zealand, while at the same time, 20% of junior doctors are thinking leaving the NHS and working in New Zealand.

NHS staff can't afford to live in London while social care funding has almost disappeared

Nigel Keohane spoke next and firstly explained he was not a "Labour person".  He quoted Nye Bevan and then Tory Minister, Lord Lawson, on how NHS  is the "closest thing the English have to a religion". 

While he recognised that there was indeed a crisis in the NHS and it was especially failing to deliver for those who need social care such as those with dementia, he is "pro market" and saw nothing wrong with private companies providing NHS services. 

He believes that this could be proved if the best performing hospitals were handed over to the private sector to manage rather than what has happened in the past, when failing hospitals have been given to private companies who in turn have also failed. 

Nigel thinks there is only 3 possible solutions to the funding crisis in the NHS - either everyone should pay an extra 3p in income tax;  or a one off levy on richer older people or introduce means tested charging for NHS and social care. 

This sparked a passionate but civilised debate in the Q&A. Some of the audience were NHS staff who criticised Nigel for his support of privatisation and charging. However, there was support for his suggestions from some who criticised free NHS services as being a subsidy for the rich by the poor. 

I suggested to Nigel that while the market is very good at certain things such as making cars, it is not good at providing or charging for health services, since the profit motive subverts services and it is expensive, bureaucratic, demeaning and inefficient to means test. Nigel replied by saying there is no evidence that the private sector is less efficient than the public sector.

There was an interesting discussion on PFI (Private Finance Initiative) funding for hospitals. Jos pointed out that it was a myth that Labour started PFI when it began under the Tories while John Major was prime minister.  Also that some of the later deals were actually not that bad value. Lewisham Hospital PFI was okay but Barts PFI was obviously not. 

Local Labour stalwart, John Saunders, praised the NHS but pointed out the failure of social care especially for the elderly.

It was an excellent debate and we soon ran out of time but continued the arguments in the bar afterwards.
Next "Sunday Night Live" is due on 13th December which will be on Syria. Details to follow.

"Sunday Night Live" is a series of friendly monthly conversations and debates for Labour Party members and supporters. Many thanks to the organising panel and especially Susan Masters and Rokhsana Fiaz (hat tip to them for many of photos in collage as well)