Tuesday, August 21, 2007

Epping Forest Council By-Election: BNP standing - help needed


There were 6 BNP Councillors in Epping Forest, now one has stood down (for “business reasons”?) and there is a by-election on Thursday 30 August. In 2004 Labour lost two seats in this ward to the BNP. It appears that a number of BNP national organisers now live in the area – Eddy Butler, Julian Leppart and convicted terrorist and Jew beater Tony Lecomber (as in far right photo - hopefully being nicked for something serious - his quote “The sick minds who would have us believe that Jews were gassed at Auschwitz are completely twisted). Delightful crew!

Contact local Party organisers Tom or Margaret (UNISON member) on 020 8508 6916. Help also wanted on Election Day.

It would be great if any local Party or trade union can organise canvass or leafleting teams. Alderton ward is only minutes away from Debden Underground (central line – zone 6) and not that far from the M11.

On this Saturday 25 August meet up 10-30 to 11am at a street stall held in the Debden Broadway (again a few minutes from Debden tube) were you will be given walks and leaflets.

UPDATE: not good news at all - BNP retain seat and Labour loses ground! Need to think about how we tackle BNP in East London. Skilled working class/self employed/middle class Loughton is very different than Barking & Dagenham. But the fascists are still able to win? hmmm

Election Results: Thursday 30th August 2007.
Epping Forest DC, Loughton Alderton BNP 393 (32.2; -5.4), Residents 367 (30.1; +1.0), Con 163 (13.3; -3.1), LDNeil Woollcott 172 (14.1; +10.5), Lab 98 (8.0; -5.2), UKIP 28 (2.3; +2.3).Majority 26. Turnout 36.7%. BNP hold. Last fought 2006.

10 comments:

Anonymous said...

Just what I like to see. Lots of new labour anti-BNP hoo har and they still gain the seat! Here we have labour campaigners that attack parties like the BNP for "discriminating" when labour themselves are racist and discriminate by trade!

For instance, the "labour" party attempts to protect and promote Muslim rights to the point where it infringes the rights of others- quite a contrast to new labour's "equality" policy; I have not seen a labour politician even raise an eyebrow to those certain Muslims who treat women as property and not human beings. As a nominal Christian and white British person I would assume I would have a long jail sentence imposed on me for discriminating against women and quite rightly.

Still, we must "celebrate" their differences, even if it infringes against other peoples principles and rights, must we not? I suppose a convenient blind eye is turned as after all, it is a part of their culture is it not?

As for Christian's rights under new labour- hmmm...lets see- non existent? Maybe not, but under new labour gay rights are promoted over Christian rights with adoption agencies, its "Islamophobic" to attack Ramadan yet in my local Bristol area college students were bought in for a radio show to discuss a question worded something like: "should we celebrate Christmas?" Of course, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that- other than it being another example of institutional "cool" discrimination.

I mean, those Christians, they’re just a bunch of blood thirsty, crusade loving infidels who should be "named and shamed." Huh? Muslim jihads? Shhhhhhhhhhhhh! Mentioning that will damage "community relations."

This is just the tip of the "galaxy" if you like- could go on and on- there are many more examples. This won't get published but still some ignorant new labour liberal bastard or bitch may take time to consider their own hypocrisy before going on an anti BNP or discrimination "crusade." Whoops, my apologies to offended Islamists for using such infidel terminology.

Churchill may well have fought the Nazis but I would be sceptical in believing that he fought for a Britain where mass immigration and multiculturalism is allowed without consultation or a Britain alas Europe where appeasement of Islam is the norm.

As Churchill put it:

"Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilization of ancient Rome."

Racist or not racist; Nazi or socialist; far right or middle; well done the BNP.

John Gray said...

Hi Chris W

I was wondering when one of you lot will come cross this post. Is it worth even asking how “Labour discriminates by trade” (whatever that means)? Or for you to put up any real evidence to support your views?

I note that you describe yourself as a Nominal Christian. You should also describe yourself as Nominal “British”. Since you are clearly not British and don’t have any understanding or pride in our Country nor our history.

Neither our laws it would seem, since I am not sure how you could receive lengthy jail sentences for “discrimination” which is a civil matter dealt with in Employment tribunals?

Finally

"I would say to the House, as I said to those who have joined this Government: 'I have nothing to offer but blood, toil, tears, and sweat.' We have before us an ordeal of the most grievous kind. We have before us many, many long months of struggle and suffering. You ask, what is our policy? I can say: It is to wage war, by sea, land and air, with all our might and with all the strength that God can give us: to wage war against a monstrous tyranny, never surpassed in the dark, lamentable catalogue of human crime. That is our policy. You ask, what is our aim? I can answer in one word: It is victory, victory at all costs, victory in spite of all terror, victory, however long and hard the road may be; for without victory, there is no survival."

You quote Churchill yet support Nazi's?

Chris – grow up

Anonymous said...

why is it that the UK seems to be the only place that remains such a free for all? To be honest, I am surprised that more people haven't voted for the BNP in the past.

I previously worked for a company and was asked to interview people to fill a position that had come up. Eight out of the twelve people I interviewed were foreign and when they asked me what the wage was and I told them, every one of them told me they'd be better off on benefits! As a British taxpayer, this is a huge slap in the face and makes me wonder why I even bother going to work.

Perhaps if parties such as Labour had bother addressing immigration better and sooner, you wouldn't have to worry about people voting for the BNP. By the way, I know for a fact that there are jewish people that back the BNP themselves. I suggest you try living in an area such as East Ham for a year. Then you might realise why so many of the people of Epping Forest vote the way they do.

John Gray said...

Anon

Please try to read something other than the Daily Hate for your views on life. Firstly, other countries have a far higher percentage of workers born outside the UK; one of the reasons for our present economic prosperity is the influx of honest hard working migrants who by and large scorn our pitiful level of benefits.

People do not vote BNP because they know it is unpatriotic and not British to support Nazi sympathisers as well as pointless. I must admit that I find your account of working for a company as simply untrue. God knows what wages your “company” was offering? People don’t go for interviews and then find out the wage levels. Also, thanks to Labour the overwhelming mass of people are better off in jobs than remaining on benefits.

As someone who has worked in large social housing estates (mostly in East London) for nearly 20 years one of the biggest problems is that there are White families, who due to poverty, who don’t value Education and have a lack of aspiration have never worked and have existed on benefits for generation after generation.

Ironically it is in these families you often find (limited) support for the BNP. While at the same time new immigrants have come into the area, worked hard, educated themselves and moved on.

Interestingly I heard research that 7% (I think?) of the vote that the BNP got in Barking was from BME voters. Funny that - the BNP depending on black voters to win.

I have actually lived “in an area such as East Ham” (guess where) for nearly my entire adult life. Over 90% of my neighbours are British West Indian, Asian, African or East Europeans (including white South Africans and New Zealanders).

The worse problems (touch wood) we have are white Junkies who will break into cars and drunks walking home (very British).

Anonymous said...

I appreciate your reply John- a shock admittedly. Blog replies are supposed to be short and snappy and to the point for people to read- but no short answer can be had to this if you want evidence. This may be the longest “comment” you have ever read. First off: “You quote Churchill yet support Nazi's?”

Obviously my meaning wasn’t clear enough. I do not support pure Nazism in any shape or form, like I would not endorse any other form of political extremism- left or right. But I also happen to detest Labour and no- I am not toning down at all.

I quote- “Well done the BNP.” It appears they got their message out and did not bow to intimidation, does it not, an achievement. Geographically, I am well detached from Epping Forest- but I believe there was a significant anti-BNP campaign there- and yet the BNP still managed to win the seat!?

Admittedly, turn out was low, but how exactly could the “Nazi” BNP still win the seat? Well, it’s the “Nazi” bit isn’t it? Obviously, being, John- “Interested in centre left politics, history & future of Labour movement family, trade unions, health & safety, employment rights, pensions,…”- and having a Searchlight (?) graphic symbol on your blog page you will not take my silly un-grown up far right “Nazi” opinions seriously. To note- Labour and “interested” in pensions?

Of course, what is your definition of far right or fascist Nazi and what markers have to be met to constitute as such? I admit, I do not know the deep specifics of Nazi or fascist belief (“a term whose definition is itself contentious”- wikipedia) but in general it advocates, through whatever means, a ethnic hierarchy of which, in the Nazis case, the Ayrans are superior and other, to them, less superior religions and ethnicities should be removed and of course the lebensraum policy. This is obviously a very extreme form of nationalism?

Looking at the BNP website, there are concerning policies, for instance they will only allow people to vote if they complete national service and they say, the last time I checked, that they want Maglev trains introduced- quite simply impossible and impractical even for a mind like mine not refined in engineering or economics.

Stating that the BNP is fascist or Nazi however could be correct; or incorrect. What they appear, in face, to stand for on social, economic issues-at present- is “voluntary” repatriation of non-white immigrants and I suppose Eastern Europeans and others who either categorize themselves as white (whether this is possible under current EU laws or not), deportation of illegals and deportation of immigrants or foreign nationals who are convicted of crime. They believe, and they are not the only, that too much immigration drains the economy rather than boosts and obviously have an anti EU stance- being nationalists. They also believe that this government promote anti white racism and discrimination, however mad it may appear. Theses beliefs, however much you would assume a BNP perception, would also give another explanation to their white’s only membership stance other than the explanation of pure fascist racism.

Importantly they, at face value, believe in the preservation, not superiority of the identity; or if you prefer commonality; or binding; or culture, of the people and descendants of the people of Britain pre post-1950s mass global immigration (if you believe there was some form of- dare I say- indigenous identity which undoubtedly you don’t).That is quite a different concept from Nazism- in fact the protection of an identity could be looked upon as more liberal considering that the ambiguous group “white” more specifically the indigenous, are to become a minority in the coming decades.

Aside from the main argument, the markers used to classify someone as an immigrant are highly debatable. To ex-labour minister Barbra Roche it may be a simple matter of saying, like she did in September 2000 that-“This country is a country of migrants”- by simply classifying a person as a migrant if they or an historic descendant entered Britain from an outside source. But as professor of genetics at Oxford, Bryan Sykes puts it in one of his books, the genetic structure of most indigenous Britons can be traced back to people, “who were here before the Romans,” or in other words Mesolithic hunter- gatherers with some in put, culturally and genetically, from later Roman and Saxon invasions. Briefly, none of these can be described as immigrants either, because the nations of England, Wales, Ireland and Scotland had not been formed, and they were present when the nations were formed bearing in mind that the definition of an immigrant is a person who enters another nation from a foreign land- which they hadn’t because no nation existed. In the case of England, it was unified initially in 927 AD; permanently in 954 AD under Saxon king Athelstan. Also, no major immigration occurred after the Norman Conquest.

Wide spread opinion categorizes the BNP as Nazi racist which has had cosmetic reform only- and even then is still racist; many comments made by some BNP members would appear to be Nazi, so in that degree the anti fascists would be correct to target such a group- but of course some of the comments could be a result of frustration with left wing provocation. However, there is no question that many comments and actions of the BNP over the decades, let alone the party’s connections with the National Front, are definitely suspicious and suggest untrustworthiness to some degree.

However, it is incredibly hypocritical, as many of you labour supporters do, to describe BNP as fascist undemocratic “criminals.” They have their criminals or associate criminals- yes- of which some are serious law breakers, some petty, and an ex- BNP member as you well know, infamous David Copeland, was found guilty of a bombing spree in April ’99. But the BNP have around 200, 000 voters as you also know- tiny in the grand scheme- but surely a huge number of fascists if every member and voter were a Nazi sympathizer? Quite concerning, surely, that in Leicester County Council, Shepshed Electoral Division, the “Nazis” recently came fourth, but got an appreciable 807 votes (20%). To note, isn’t Leicester going to be the first city in Britain to have an ethnic “minority” majority?

There is quite a selection of Labour workers or candidates who have been convicted of something or other from petty fines to a worker, a Labour official Peter Tuffley, charged with grooming an underage boy in 2006 and quite a few other serious offences committed by the likes of Labour councilor Lestyn Tudor Davies, jailed for seven years in 2005 convicted for repeatedly raping a nine year old. And of course, there is always that little “criminal” who has a wife by the name of Cherie and sent us on an illegal “crusade” into Iraq bringing a death toll which was estimated by Washingtonpost on October 11th 2006 to be 655,000 people. More recently, I heard somewhere a figure of about one million- one sixth of the holocaust total! Still, as they say, keep it up chaps! Continuing, all parties have criminals and many causes and religions have extremists- not good. At times, the likes of Labour, the liberal left and associates have almost inferred through media bias that fanatic un-democratic phenomena can be related only to the BNP- by focusing on such a party’s actions and beliefs.

To quote: “neither our laws it would seem, since I am not sure how you could receive lengthy jail sentences for “discrimination” which is a civil matter dealt with in Employment tribunals?”

I admit, I do not understand the workings of law but I am allowed to comment on such am I not?

Of course, what I was really arguing, and perhaps did not make clear, was that, hypothetically, if I had discriminated in some way against a woman and was found guilty of such act I would have some form of punishment. Maybe not a “lengthy jail sentence” but some form of punishment would be imposed.

It may be classed it as a civil matter, but discrimination against women surely is a criminal matter as well, particularly if that discrimination involves abuse or violence at some level?

To lead on-“I have not seen a Labour politician even raise an eyebrow to those certain Muslims who treat women as property and not human beings.” There are undoubtedly certain “sects” or “cells” of Islam, however distorted they are supposedly from mainstream Islam, which not only practice discrimination against women, but also practice homophobia and anti Semitism.

In January, a controversial production was produced by channel 4 dispatches entitled “undercover mosque” where an imam was filmed saying, “if she doesn’t wear the hijab we hit her”- both inciting hatred against Muslim women who wish to have choice over wearing the hijab and an insult to non Muslim women. The Muslim leaders filmed also talk about how they will not integrate with what they call infidels or non Muslims and Muslims who don’t follow to their standards, and make abusive comments about homosexuals like “chuck them off mountains.”

Channel 4, as you probably know, is known for its controversial work, but surely some form of action would be expected, particularly as it was fairly obvious that channel 4 was exposing discrimination and racial hatred.

So it was with surprise that I heard from the “impartial” BBC that, actually, Channel 4 was to be investigated- by West Midlands police and the CPS- and were to be accused of “stirring” racial hatred and wrongly editing the production. Further, they said that the production had put the Muslims words out of “context.” It may be the case that Channel 4 edited too much- but what context were West Midlands police looking for? After watching the production three times there is little questioning that the comments had intent behind them.

If you Labour John, and your anti fascist, anti BNP friends like ANL, UAF and Searchlight are truly against homophobia, anti Semitism, discrimination and fascism then why can I hear no uproar from such parties over this issue: these Muslims appear to have got away with inciting racial hatred in a fascist manner, do they not? Explain.

Further, in April 2004, a mathematics teacher, Simon Smith, who was to stand for the BNP was suspended, a decision supported by NASWUT, (who as you know endorse the UAF and ANL) and the TUC (BBC news story). There have been other cases, as you know, where BNP teachers have been suspended like one Mark Walker. Schools, I believe, have these so called “equality” and equal opportunities policies and BNP teachers are sacked, I presume, out of fear that they may- evidence to suggest or no evidence to suggest- discriminate against ethnic and religious minorities. Undoubtedly this is very much supported by you John.

Amazingly, in September 2006, Israr Khan was, apparently, made an Ofsted inspector even though he was, as the Daily Mail would describe a- “hardline Muslim teacher who caused a furore by denouncing pupils for celebrating Christmas”- however much distortion on the Daily Mail’s half. He is reported to have said: “Who is your God? Why are you saying Jesus and Jesus Christ? God is not your God - it is Allah."

A Muslim has every right to preach to Allah- but a Muslim shouldn’t have the right to force Allah on others- which is what this man appeared to be doing.

If you Labour John, and your anti-fascist, anti- BNP friends like ANL, UAF and Searchlight are truly against homophobia, anti Semitism, discrimination and fascism then why could I hear no uproar from such parties over this issue: this man was evidently abusing the Christian faith and the practice of Christmas- sorry I mean the winter celebrations- and evidently could be described just as “extreme” as a BNP member? Explain.

Nick Griffin can be trialed in front of a jury for “racist” abuse, like calling Islam an “evil, wicked faith.” Yet ganster rap, the artists of such “music” whom are black- and increasingly white- can sell their music whose “message” is about raping women and killing white people, is homophobic and often refers to blacks as, amazingly “niggers”?

If you Labour John, and your anti-fascist, anti- BNP friends like ANL, UAF and Searchlight are truly against homophobia, anti Semitism, discrimination and fascism then why do you not campaign to have such material removed from our shelves? Or do you and I have not noticed?

Perhaps you can not speak for the likes of the UAF. Backtracking to the few (of many) examples of Islamic extremism, it seems at times that it would have to take as much as a Muslim extremist to drop the bomb or threaten or practice to drop the bomb, for Labour to notice. I admit that Labour have done well in this area, but abuse from un moderate Muslims, however you define such, seems to be ignored. Perhaps you can contradict this.

To quote- “I was wondering when one of you lot will come cross this post. Is it worth even asking how “Labour discriminates by trade” (whatever that means)? Or for you to put up any real evidence to support your views?”

Evidence is above, for starters. What I meant, and admittedly the comment was a little ambiguous, was that labour has their own prejudices as they strive for a diverse multicultural “new Britain.”

Perhaps it is multiculturalism that is discriminatory. How? In a nation with so much cultural and religious diversity, it would seem wonderful if equality could be reached where everyone lives happily ever after. However, it would seem impossible to create an equal society, due to the fact that the needs and rights of the different communities conflict.

Further, what exactly is equality? Fairness? Does that fairness, to you, mean to give rights to a group to live the life and believe what they believe in their way, without “intimidation”? We have problems.

Take the homosexual minority. They want to, naturally, have the rights to be homosexual and advance the rights of the homosexual. Then you have the Christians, the average one undoubtedly having respect for different people, but who have their beliefs- which they have a right to follow.

In the recent Catholic adoption agency fracas, the archbishops said: "In legislating to protect and promote the rights of particular groups the government is faced with the delicate but important challenge of not thereby creating the conditions within which others feel their rights have been ignored or sacrificed, or in which the dictates of personal conscience are put at risk.” (BBC news article)

This is bang on- this is exactly what has happened. Under “equality” for all thinking, they had the right not to allow gays to adopt from their agencies. This is discrimination and bigotry- the singling out of a religion to target for institutional suppression, and one may argue it very broadly matches the Nazi anti-Semitism principles, though of course much less extreme.

Reading NASWUT policy on “Islamophobia” in the Advice for Schools and Colleges section it says that- “Anti-Muslim prejudice and racism is based upon claims that Islam is an ‘inferior’ religion and a threat to the dominant values of society.” And yet here we have evidence that Labour is practically telling a religion that it is inferior. Perhaps, to you, a crime is only committed if Islam is attacked?

This isn’t the only example of anti- Christian discrimination: there have been all kinds of subtle attacks against the faith particularly when you look at “impartial” BBC reporting in general over the past so many years, which have passed by unnoticed in a “tolerant” Britain.

Nominally as you know, Britain is a Christian nation, a religion which has been associated with Britain for a good 1500 years at least. Those 1500 years haven’t been democratic- it has taken a devilishly long time to get there from tentative steps of the Charter of liberties of 1100 and the issuing of the Magna Carta in 1215 to Cromwell’s stance against King Charles autocratic style rule to what we have today.

On top, over the centuries Britain, like many countries, has developed on top of a core religion, a set of standards or principles it follows (which may or may not be influenced by the core religion), which have been revised and modified as a natural and continuing process. Multiculturalism and immigration undermines such principles and the natural development of such principles as it allows recent immigrants to expand their culture or religion, of which details of such practises are often different to the existing principles, or occasionally extremely opposed to the principles of the people already present. The clash of principles can be as simple as the tolerance of Alcohol to the intolerance. Admittedly, multiculturalism protects those different and sometimes conflicting cultural principles but this in turn discriminates against the existing “indigenous” principles as Multiculturalism weakens the position of such, does it not? So pro multiculturalists discriminate?

And yet, amazingly, “integration”- another Labour wish, appears to some to be in complete contrast to Multiculturalism- and I could only agree. This policy strives for more than just toleration: it appears to attempt to achieve some form of combination of the cultures present in Britain, which surely would have to result in loss of diversity alas a resultant level of “discrimination”?

To me, a mono set of principles, even though the resultant is a level of discrimination, is the best thing for a single nation. By accommodating separate principles and standards, tribalism can only be the result; states within states; communities within communities; segregation underneath solidarity.

To quote- “Or for you to put up any real evidence to support your views (for Labour discrimination)?”

There is further evidence to support this. Recently, the town of Corby was branded by Labour’s, ironically white, Ann Beasley as “too white and too British.” To note, surely this quote could infer that only white can be British, quite contradictory to the globalization message of Labour supporters where Britain is everyone’s land? As a white person, this comment is highly offensive- particularly coming from a “white” Labour MP- or rather a smiling twat of a bitch- Ann Beasley. Louise Bagshawe said: "Labour has controlled Corby council for 23 years and the town is very deprived. We have the lowest wages in Northamptonshire. Now locals are being told that Corby is too British for British jobs."
This comment ties in wonderfully with the recent announcement by Cadbury’s that they would close their Somerdale plant, Keynsham, near Bristol with the jobs moving to- wait for it- Poland ! Undoubtedly this was based on economic reasons, but still- the irony.

Another remark by government official Neil Murphy reported on March 9th 2006, described Newcastle as "hideously white." This same remark was made by a Jewich councilor, I believe, about another area.

Furthermore, 30th January 2006, there was another case, which can be found at Personneltoday.com, where “White applicants (were) rejected in police diversity bid.”
I remember the case well, and to quote:

“Gloucestershire police force has rejected job applications from more than 100 white males in a bid to boost diversity (perhaps better described as institutional racism?)

Gloucestershire police force has rejected job applications from more than 100 white males in a bid to boost diversity.

Nearly two-thirds of white men who applied to join the constabulary were turned down, whereas every ethnic minority candidate was invited for an assessment.”
Your explanation? Where the big UAF- ANL- Labour uproar here then: surely this is racism, an act which is associated with Nazism? Of course, these “diversity” principles are of Labour’s, or an associates making. And the UAF’s chairman, mayor Ken Livingston who leads an anti-fascist campaign, yet has been accused of supposedly anti- Semitic remarks. Further, he said to Indian-born businessmen- "if they’re not happy they can always go back to Iran and see if they can do better under the Ayatollahs." Hasn’t he applied for a BNP membership yet John?

While on Ken Livingston, he seems to be another great arguer for exusing Islamic extremism in Britain. Whether this is still the case, I do not know but on July 20th 2005 Ken said: “I think you've just had 80 years of western intervention into predominantly Arab lands because of the western need for oil. We've propped up unsavoury governments, we've overthrown ones we didn't consider sympathetic.” There is some truth in the intervention bit, but “we.” I am a westerner, but I have not interviened in Arab lands- and I have only twice left Britain. This isn’t the only only time, when Britain has acted controversialy, that the British actions are described as “our” actions. Correction: I have no political power so I can only follow what the master says. When politicians say “we” did this, “we” did that; this is nothing but a pure cheek to me, where politicians offload their ineptitudes on the average Brit.

Of course, immagine what would happen if a young hard working white British man- who could trace his ancestry way back in to the depths of this Islands history directly- and who has seen vast levels of foreign migration into his community, who is upset because everyone who makes up his community now doesn’t celebrate “Wintertmas”and doesn’t speak English, but instead celebrate Eid and Rammadan and Divali and wear strange things on their heads. He tries to complain to a local labour councilor- he tells him that he should respect different people and that his community had become “colourful.” The next day, a BNP membership form falls through his letterbox and he signs up. Eventually, he gets so angry with his situation that he sets fire to a local Sikh Temple or Mosque and naturally is arrested. Of course, this man is just a Nazi xenophobic isn’t he John who is targetting other people for no real reason? To note, in Bristol someone said that members of the black community that commit crime, commit crime because of the “Slave trade”- there’s always an exuse for an ethnic minority isn’t there?

To mention Livingston again he said about the Slave Trade that it is not possible to,"meaningfully apologise for something a former generation did."

It is not the way it refers to how it was not really possible to apologise now that is inacurate, it is how he lays the blame at (and rights off) “a former generation.”

Which leads me sweetly on? To quote- “I note that you describe yourself as a Nominal Christian. You should also describe yourself as Nominal “British”. Since you are clearly not British and don’t have any understanding or pride in our Country nor our history.”

But what is your history? Here in Bristol, new Labour “celebration” of “British” history consists of a highly disguised BBC rant about Slavery and a swift denunciation of the British Empire- and why not chip in a little story about how the Muslims are feeling abused because people are flying England flags which may remind them of the crusades? You could almost be forgiven to believe that it is bad to celebrate British history and bad to be white! Of course, full facts and the full history are pushed aside; the people swallowing this are not given the full knowledge to make their own judgment which Labour would not want. But of course, being Labour and “liberal”- to you British history is just that- a racist right off. So no wonder Sir Keith Ajegbo said some months ago that “many indigenous white pupils have negative perceptions of their own identity”- which was quoted in the Guardian. It is quite obvious to me that new Labour and their allies have been trying to stir up a negative perception of indigenous British identity, with intent rather than incompetence- a form of racial hatred. In fact, they have even tried to rewrite it to fit present left wing ideology.

To quote the Telegraph: “Parts of British history need to be rewritten to emphasise the roles played by other races and religions like Muslims, a prominent race relations (more like race destroyer) campaigner has said.”

This is in total discrimination of the indigenous whites- their unique, my unique- heritage will be snatched away from them by powerful left wing multicultural reformists who wish to advance their egos.

To continue: “Rewriting the country’s history would demonstrate to Britons in the 21st century how other groups apart from Anglo Saxons shaped the nation.”

Would this mean that if, for instance, a Middle Eastern trader had come to Britain in the 1700s and left after a short while, that this would mean that the Middle Easterners had a huge influence on this country?

He (in reference to Trevor Phillips) told a fringe meeting at the Labour conference: "We may need to revisit our national story – we want to rewrite that story to tell the whole story." Perhaps this includes adding figments of a left wing imagination?
Mr Phillips said: "When we talk about the Armada, it was the Turks who saved us (yeah right) because they held up the Armada after a request from Elizabeth I.”

There may be a minority of opinion that believes this, and there may be a little evidence to suggest this but rewriting, or attempting to rewrite history to suit a single perception is criminal.

Returning to the Slave Trade “jihad”, this is mentioned in the “impartial” media practically every week- perhaps as much as to make white people feel guilty as to “celebrate” abolition- perhaps in an attempt to break national pride of the indigenous to make them more susceptible to accepting multicultural theory? Could you contradict this?

As I mentioned before, the full facts and the full history are pushed aside. For instance, descendants of enslaved blacks in the U.S and here are benefiting from the Slave Trade “riches” as much as any other ethnic group- there may be deprived black people- but there are deprived members of all ethnic communities is there not?

Some “liberal” anti- Slave trade groups almost compare the enslavement of the Blacks to Hitler’s extermination of the Jews- which passes by completely unquestioned. Of course, Hitler’s motive for the extermination was based much more on discrimination against a certain group than anything else whereas the Slave Trade was much orientated around rich merchants and members of the elite making money even if it involved an element of racism?

The labour- pressure group- influenced media constantly talk about the slave trade as though they expect me to walk down to the local confession box if enough pressure is applied! There can be no allowance for an argument where every man and woman, girl and boy alike with an “indigenous” white face should apologise for Slavery: not only were most not actually involved in Slavery, many did not actually benefit either.

For instance in the Industrial Revolution, the Longman handbook of modern history suggests that around about 300, 000 British people were employed in the coal industry with a peak 1.1 million workers in 1914. Large amounts of the population were, as you know, working in poor deprived conditions in the heavy industrial sectors and of course in the Victorian period it was crime to be poor with many people- families- living in workhouses. And here was me thinking that the white British were rolling in Slave Trade money being served champagne by a black servant.

Many other nations, religions and ethnicities were involved in Slavery and had Empires and Slavery continues today- as I hope you know. At one point, I believe even around a million white Irish were enslaved- something which thinkers like you who moan about slavery may be ignorant of. We are trying to give modern human rights principles to a period of history where I believe it was still possible to be killed for “Harry Potter” powers.

So, I do not know how you can criticise me for having no understanding of British history when I do not know what your markers for having understanding are.
To quote- “Since you are clearly not British and don’t have any understanding or pride in our Country nor our history.”

What is your perception of pride? To me, pride engulfs patriotism. Patriotism, for me, is the pride in the country you live in and the identity you belong to. As wikipedia puts it:

“Patriotism denotes positive and supportive attitudes to a 'fatherland' by individuals and groups.”

“Patriotism covers such attitudes as: pride in its achievements and culture, the desire to preserve its character and the basis of the culture, and identification with other members of the nation.”

Of course, you always feel that Labour’s idea- and perhaps your idea- of a proud person is a person who is allegiant to Multicultralism. Yet this promotes not solidarity but seperatness. It allows “foreign” people to practise their cultures they have bought with them, even if these practises conflict with that of the pre existing way of life This is not my idea of pride: I am proud of the achievements of a single community, the white British “community,” and the unique identity of this community (a blend of different practises which have variations geographically, through class and over time, some of which have been adopted practises from elsewhere)

Migration watch website notes what Sir Andrew Green said on 27th September- “He highlights that it means that our population will increase by about 8.7 million between 2004 and 2031 of which 7.2 million, or 86% will be due to immigration.”
Some of these ethnic groups who bring their own identities will integrate- there is limited integration. Most will not. If things continue as they are, these minority religions and cultures will grow and eventually replace the identity of the “indigenous” people- who do not deserve such treatment from an incompetent Labour. Has anyone bothered to consider tensions that could be created within the ambiguous “ethnic minority” group: they are as different as they are alike are they not? Racism is not solely a pursuit of some white people, as labour would have us believe and it is not certain that minorities will get on, if you like. For instance, recently Somali asylum seekers were moved into an area of Bristol famous for its well established black population- and tensions resulted.

To note, the big mistake made is when people say religion or culture and ethnicity are not related. Someone on the BBC said that it didn’t really matter that whites would become a minority as religion or culture and ethnicity are not related to ethnicity. This is true in that sense, but particular cultures and religions have developed in a geographic area which has a prominent ethnicity. Thus, for instance, it would seem far more probable that a “British” Muslim will be of an Asian descent than of white British descent- for Britain has been prominently Christian for good millennia.

To conclude, the BNP, who argue many of the things that I do, is as someone put it an “unknown entity.” For instance, there is evidence to say that they only focus on crime committed by ethnic minorities because they want people to believe that only ethnic minorities comit crime. On the otherhand, it is possible that they act like this because they feel mainstream media ignores crime committed by such groups for whatever reason. To conclude, Labour are just as discriminatory as other parties with their focus on BME. To conclude, I have two grandfathers who fought at Normandy and beyond to keep an invader out of Britain. What was the point of their effort if a continual inflow of migrants would occur anyway which would create endless social and pratical problems, of which I cannot even begin to contemplate? To conclude, “whites will be a minority in London by 2010”- from the Guardian. The ambiguous “white” group, which includes the “indegenous” like me, will be a minority in cities by the 2030s. Zyclon B may be one method of ethnic and religious cleansing. I ask you John, why on earth should I support a party that, through soft methods, also promotes a subtle form of ethnic and religious cleansing?

Anonymous said...

I think you miss read my comment. I don't think many people who vote for the BNP are racist and if you looked at their policies you will see that they are quite happy to let all legal immigrants that are already here, stay here if they wish. This is probably why your research said that 7% of their barking vote was from black people.
I must be honest, I find the way you wrote your reply far more racist than my initial comment - mainly toward white British people. Also it sounds as though you think that most of the 36% of people who voted BNP at the end of august are the ones who are at the bottom of the social barrel so to speak.
Then you basically called me a liar when I told you about my experience at work. The company was Moben Kitchens and the reason they found out what the wages were from me, was because they were going to fill a similar position to me and they asked me how much I was on so I told them. I was on £150 per week plus commission.

I think if any thing, your reply has made me dislike labour even more so. I also know families from east london who are not trouble makers, but hard workers. Some have also moved out to the epping forest district to get away from the area because it has gone down hill so much that they can't even walk to the shops at night without being afraid. I am sorry to say that they seem to think that immigrants are the ones that they generally saw causing problems. Still, perhaps what they said is untrue also!

John Gray said...

“I appreciate your reply John- a shock admittedly.”
Hi Chris
Yes, your response is the longest I have ever had (and I have ever seen anywhere else). I was glad to see that don’t support pure Nazism (not quite sure what that means but I will take it as being anti-fascist) and political extremism. However from then on it all goes down hill.
I must admit that I am not aware that I have a searchlight symbol on my blog? But you have reminded me that I must put a link to that site.
I think that Nazi are not just extreme right wingers but something far more sinister and ugly. They think that they are a superior race and other people who are not like them are sub-human (and can be treated as such).
I don’t agree for a moment that immigration drains the economy. In fact our economy is dependent on immigrants and would collapse if we didn’t abuse their cheap labour and good work ethic.

I’ve said else where that there is no such thing as a British Race. We are a Mongol nation, always have been and always will be. That is one of our strengths. We had the same nonsense talked about the Huguenots, the Jews, and the Chinese and especially about the Irish.
I’m Welsh/Scots and I can’t trace a drop of English blood in my ancestors, yet I have lived in England for most of my adult life. I don’t feel the slightest bit English and often feel uncomfortable with English culture (cricket, what on earth is all that about?) but I feel British.

Not everyone who votes BNP is a violent thug, but there are a vast and dispropriate number of activists who are! Remember street violence is part and parcel of fascism and Nazism. This is how they think they won power in Italy then Germany.

Remember that the decision to go to War in Iraq was actually made by a vote in the House of Commons with overwhelming public support.
Yes, of course you can comment on law, but without being too pompous (which I have a tendency) “discrimination” and “violence” are two entirely different things. “Discrimination” is wrong and morally repugnant but it is not a criminal act. Violence is!

There are a number of Christian sects who practice discrimination about women and gays. Try being a Catholic priest if you happen to have the wrong chromosome. The hatred of gays by some Christian fundamentalists is primeval.
Try Googling “Euston Manifesto” if you think the real “left” don’t attack fundamentalists. Read Nick Cohen. Check out Norm blog.
I understand that Fascist teacher Simon Smith was using a school computer and internet connection to upload fascist propaganda during School time! Some martyr! It would be illegal to sack teachers who “happen” the support the BNP.
I don’t believe practically anything the “Socialist Worker” So please don’t believe anything that the Daily Hate says either.
I would also suggest you read Searchlight and the gay press about the campaigns against homophobic gangster rap. I’ll jail the lot of them. (Inciting murder and provoking unlawful violence is also different to discrimination)
Personally I don’t think that any Church or religion should be allowed to run adaptation agencies. I am a convinced atheist - I respect their views and believe passionately in religious freedom. I really cannot believe that you believe that Islam has unfair advantages in this country. Ask Prince Charles whose faith he will be sworn to defend?

Multi-culturism equal democracy. Remember Chris, if we did not have democracy in this country, loudmouths like us would not last long.
Gloucester Police cocked up on equality laws and had the grace to admit it and change their policies. Chris – the Police must reflect their community. They are representative “civilians in uniform”. It is crucial to our democracy that this happens.
I see nothing wrong with Ken’s remarks either way. BTW – you do need to go abroad more.
Criminals are criminals. Racists do racist things because they are racists.
Sorry Chris I am losing the will to live responding to these comments. I have other people to have a go at. I just hope you change your views. You are nearly there. Just hate Nazi and life is a lot happier.
Finally
Maybe useful to note that for hundreds of years this country was continually occupied by tens of thousands of African and Middle Eastern troops (and other black “Roman citizens”). Inter-marriage was commonplace. For all its faults the Roman Empire was not conscious of a persons colour.
So just think of the black blood that is flowing underneath your white skin.
Rejoice, you may indeed have won first prize in life and be born British, but you are also a member of a genetically identical, physically very similar, mostly brave, often wise but sometimes foolish unique, curious, intelligent, proud (sometimes too much), vigorous and wonderful race –

BTW your true race is called “human”.

John Gray said...

Hi Anon

I find it a bit ironic for someone who is either a fascist sympathiser or an apologist such as you to have a go at someone for being “racist”! Such is life I suppose.

I actually argued that in lower income groups there is only “limited” support for the BNP. In fact I am very proud that in our Country, Nazi and fascist parties only attack a tiny minuscule percentage support.

The fact of the matter is that the BNP/Nazi only wins where anti-fascist organisation is weak. Where we can mobile and fight them on real issues we win. I share responsibility for our poor showing at Barking and Epping. Where the anti-fascists unite and organise as in Thurrock recently and the Isle of Dog’s in the 1980’s we win.

Sorry anon (why don’t you have the courage of your convictions and tell us who you are?), I don’t believe your story about “Moben Kitchens”. I do think you are lying. I don’t think you would get 100% of all foreign applicants all saying that they wouldn’t take the job because they could get more on benefits.

All eight of them were on benefits? It’s also not even true that you would get more than £150 pw (on commission) while single on benefits ,so they were all married with kids then? Also, so the so-called “non-foreign” (whatever that means) candidates were all happy about the money or not on benefits, yeah?

I’ve worked as a welfare rights advisor in the past so what you are claiming is simply nonsense. Why do you have to lie to embellish your argument?

Listen “anon”, yes there are big problems in our society and the democratic parties ignore these issues at their peril. However, much of the support that the BNP gets is not just pandering to racism but because of their strong stance on "Law and Order". Which you refer to, is the reason why they get a BME vote and is of course very ironic due to the institutional belief in political violence in the BNP.

I am glad that you don’t like Labour because of what I have said. I don’t think (and remember I don’t speak on anyone’s behalf except my own on this blog) we want people such as you voting Labour. Can I ban you from supporting us?

Anonymous said...

Hi John,

just spent a fair bit of time reading through this page. i have tried to take a fair and balanced view point.

when weighing up the strenth of both arguements i must say that i find chris m far more conviencing.

for a start the fascist in italy where are very strong nationalist party who did great things for italy. Secondly left wing history is in many cases far more bloddy than right. Other than the Nazis who murderd millions. Comunists have murderd ten times that e.g. Stalin and Mao Zedong.

You also call BNP nazis when lets be fair they arent nazis it is possible to be nationalist wothout being a nazi you know.

From what i can see you sound desperate in an arguement that you are clearly struggling to defeat.

If BNP supporters can all argue that well i know who has got my vote. And believe it or not its not you and mister Brown.

P.S. i believe that when chris says “Labour discriminates by trade” he means that their policies discrimanate. In that they favour foreigners and immigrants over native british people.

John Gray said...

Hi Anon
You are perfectly entitled to you views (which you would not be able to do so if the BNP controlled the state). But I would have to disagree that the fascist in Italy ever did any good? They were notoriously corrupt and incompetent. Admittedly they did not murder on anywhere the same scale as the Nazi (they even had Jewish members at first). But frankly they were just a shower.
You are probably right that extreme left wing governments have killed more that Hitler (thankfully though we didn’t him continue that long). But two wrongs don’t make one right? They were both extremist psychopaths doing what extremists do if they happen to get into power.
Yes of course it is possible to be a nationalist and not a Nazi. I have many relatives who are proud to call them Welsh and vote for Plaid. They are not Nazi. I am very proud to call myself British. Please Google the BNP to find out what a load of scum they are and check http://www.anl.org.uk/09-britain-nazis.htm to see pictures of Tyndale dress up as a Brown shirt and then tell me they are not Nazi’s.
Your guess about what Chris M meant by “Labour discriminates by Trade” is as good as any I suppose. It’s just as barmy as any other I suppose.